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Her emotions are still raw.
And it will probably be one of the most important things I ever do.
Oh, andPosegot picked up for season two.
Congratulationson the second season!My God, its a relief.
It feels deeply affirming.
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You would be going to Susanne Bartsch parties!Exactly.
Just showing the different creativity that was going on in these different spaces.
Maybe even having one of them become a club kid.
These are just my pitches.
We do this together.
Ryan Murphy hasdescribedPoselike a Cinderella story.
Was that optimism and wonder always a part of the show?That optimism is very much Ryan.
I didnt bring that optimism, but I was onboard once I met the actors.
Then I didnt want to go dark, because I didnt want anyone to die.
But we wanted to protect them.
And their bubbliness, optimism, happiness, excitement, and enthusiasm informed their characters.
When I was younger, I wanted all of the things she wanted.
So there is a part of me that wants to undo that.
They are the audience we are really targeting when I am writing on the page.
Ive heard people say, Is it too fairy tale?
I dont think we shy away from the reality of what specifically these women are struggling with.
The tone of the show is, how far do we have to go specifically?
Do we need to show Angel actually blowing a john off?
And that shes sad about doing it and struggling?
Thats just not what were interested in, and we let people bring that darkness to it.
Thats the advantage of having a show about a community that has largely already been so stifled.
I dont even mean cis people watching trans and queer people watching are waiting for something bad to happen.
For me, fine, let us create a fairy tale.
But I dont feel like its unrealistic.
We are choosing to show the grit but not go so dark.
This is notThe Wire.
This is notThe Deuce.
They can say,This made me feel good, this made me hopeful.
Stevens a lot more critical than I am.
Im more measured and I pick my battles.
He has his queerness and I have my transness.
People are already talking about the Christmas episode like, Im gonna watch this every year at Christmastime.
I think that stuff has only been able to happen because we were in that room.
This is a lineage.
It was inaccurate, but it was a huge scene in the pilot.
So we had to recut it in a way that was more accurate.
How do we rewrite this and how do we give new choreography?
How do we see to it that we get different background actors to help?
We had to rework everything.
This is not a documentary.
But he always sided on Shit, Im wrong.
I shouldve asked before we thought about this.
Like, probably, girl.
Thats why were strong.
Its just like,Bitch, no, this is not it.Were not corporate, Hollywood people.
Both you and Ryan have alluded to heated conversations in the writers room.
I was like, This is notGlee.
This is not high school, this is on the streets, so we need to show something different.
In episode seven, we take Papi and we actually show the consequences of selling drugs.
No one wants to see this happen to little Papi.
My exact quote was, Ryan, but what if we put in some hot thugs?
Then, Steven wrote this amazing script that was all about Papi and that saga.
At first, I was really protective and wasnt saying anything, and Ryan called me out one day.
Shell talk about the issues but she wont talk about herself.
That happened after maybe six weeks.
I turned it back on him and said, Ive never heard you talk.
And he said, Ask me three questions.
Ill answer it now.
I asked about his family life, I asked him if he ever wanted to be a woman.
Ive seen this happen with the cast and the crew, even the straight cis guys.
The show has opened them up.
Most of these fucking people on our crew have never met a trans person before.
Then, I felt safe.
This is an exchange.
Before I decided to take the offer, I didnt know who was in that room, really.
I didnt know who Steven Canals was.
Everything only made sense to me once I met Steven.
What has it been like for you entering this world of Hollywood.
Do you feel safe?[Laughing.]
Do I feel safe?
I never feel safe.
I come as sort of a name, or at least a name in the community, right?
We can acknowledge that you are an icon, okay?
][Fake voice] You know, like, Im somebody?
You know, Im being summoned by a very powerful man who wants to tell this specific story.
And I go in knowing that he needs me.
Thats not a power dynamic that most writers who want to break into Hollywood get.
I come with a body of work.
I come with a community and credibility.
And so, you come with that sense of power.
Im being summoned, and shepherded through, and supported.
That part grew, the shepherding and supporting.
The initial relationship was like,Who is this?Okay.
Let me read her stuff.
Lets have a meeting, lets see if I like her.And then he liked me.
And then he gave me an offer.
And then meeting Brad Falchuk.
I was crying last night when we wrapped.
I think it will probably be one of the most important things I ever do.
Ive also seen these actors finally get opportunities to shine.
Exactly what Viola Davis said black women and women of color dont get the opportunities.
Its the same thing, even more so, for trans women of color.
There are no roles.
And its like,Oh, shit, we did something.When youre doing it, youre not thinking.
It exists now, and no one can take it away.
Itll always be there for queer and trans kids to watch whenever they want.
Just in the same way thatParis Is Burningwas that, too, for a lot of people.
I appreciate your question, its one Ive thought a lot about.
Im sure that in a project like that, that actor didnt even have to audition for the role.
In that way, theyre not making a wide casting call to even see whats out there.
And what our show did so well is that we show that the talents exist.
Trans communities are deeply unemployed.
And thats not just in Hollywood.
Thats across all industries.
I wanted Christopher Meloni as Dick Ford.
That was you?Yes!
You were just likeDaddy.I was likeZaddy.
I wanted a man [like Meloni] who was just like, This is what I like.
Do you think of desire as a social thing?
A lot of people talk about desire as a personal thing Thats just my preference!
For specifically the Dick Ford character, he cant put exact language to why.
Hes like, I dont know why my dick gets hard knowing that yours is in the room.
And maybe its because I like knowing that Im getting away with something that no one knows about.
Its not just a girl youre keeping in the dark.
Youre just not special.
Were goddesses, were queens.
I would always say, I dont wanna be a goddess, I want to be a girl.
Their desires, too.Yes, and their desires.
They desire trans women, or lets be more specific trans women with penises.
And theres no space in our culture to discuss that and to create a space for what that is.
Im trans, and theyre not attracted to me because I dont have a penis.
Now, is it a fully formed, even, reciprocal relationship?
No, because she has to compromise.
But we compromise in relationships, I get that.
So like, my sisters ideas about what they desire are informed by these men and what they desire.
Thatll be our Ellen moment.
I feel like thats uncharted terrain in that way.
How has it been doing press for the show?
I read aGuardianpiecethat I thought was very odd.I know… [laughs].
What made you think it was odd?
I would love to hear your thoughts on that.
Of course, thats partially a function of the journalistic enterprise.Its always tough.
That was my first profile, which is strange.
I didnt really understand the intentionality of him wanting to write about me.
I always get fearful about what people choose to magnify and what they choose not to.
So yeah, its a fraught relationship.
Is there a dissonance?There is.
His lack of understanding around trans issues or racial issues.
I am aware that my work is going to be taken and critiqued and pulled apart.
But when Ryan approached me, thats what I was most excited about.
Instead, I would be on the other side creating.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
