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A hundred, possibly thousands of girls showed up in this local competition.
You won 500 bucks and bragging rights; the bragging rights were more important to me.
The rest, as they say, is herstory.
We have to talk about last weeks episode whenBenDeLaCreme eliminated himself.
What happened?I wish I could fucking tell you, Alex.
The producers did not tell Ru.
It was a shock.
She said to me, I hope you understand why I did what I did.
I said, I 100 percent do not understand it.
I kind of left it at that.
I never wouldve done that, but thats me.
I respect her decision.
Do you think it was more manipulative than it seemed?I dont know if its manipulation or martyrdom.
That the crown didnt mean anything to her the way it meant something to the other girls.
She definitely left a mark.
Thats just a fact.
The drama is a huge part of the entertainment.
When everybodys getting along harmoniously, the fans have a problem with it.
They say its boring.
Personally, I think this season has been amazing.
These girls are not holding back.
It wasnt called queer back then.
Queer is a new kind of term.
We called it gay.
Helping in some aspects, killing it in some others.
Well get into that later.
The AIDS epidemic took him from us in 87.
And I said, I cant get in, Im 17 years old.
She sent me a fake ID with a note that said, You have no excuses.
She knew I didnt drink.
She wasnt worried about that.
I was at a club called the Underground in New York City.
Staring right at me.
And I was looking around like,Whos he talking to?Michelle, why?
Youre the most beautiful woman Ive ever seen in my life.
I was like, Are you talking to me?
Because I never felt pretty.
I was never ever told I was pretty in school.
My parents of course did, but you dont listen to your parents.
I was the most beautiful thing in that moment.
What was school like for you growing up?I was bullied and not liked.
I had found my tribe, which had never existed before.
They were voguing; they were doing things I had never seen.
All I knew was that I wanted to be a part of it.
They accepted me into their house, into their family, theHouse of Magnifique.We had a house mother.
This was all new to me, having a chosen mother and father.
I became one of them, and they said I should walk in the face category.
They were always like, Thats the girl with the face.
I did the whole circuit.
And I was the sole white girl in a Puerto Rican, Dominican house.
They used to call me Cara, which meansfacein Spanish.
But I realized Im not a Cara, so I thought Michelle Visage visagemeansfacein French.
Its an homage to the gay scene and to the ballroom scene, where I learned about drag.
Thats where I learned about trans people, queer people, gay people, bi people.
All of the gay boys I knew came out as bi first because it was a safer place.
They didnt come out as gay.
They would get their ass kicked.
So bi to me was always a gateway drug and didnt really exist.
Probably over the past three to four years is when Ive come to really stand by bisexuality.
Back then, I probably wouldve been bi, because Id been with both genders.
It just didnt seem real to me.
It felt like youre either gay or youre not gay.
But now I firmly and strongly stand by and believe in bisexuality.
My daughter identifies as bisexual, so I get it.
And the way we use words and labels has changed.Correct.
Nobody had a problem with being labeled in the 80s.
We were proud to wear a gay label.
They called each other faggot; they called each other tranny.
It was not offensive.
It came from a place of love.
Thats why its confusing for an old bitch like myself now to understand.
The N-word has always been a slur.
Calling a Jewish person a kike has always been a slur.
But these new words werent slurs, they were affection.
Its kind of mind-boggling.
And I get it and respect it and treat it as such, but it never was that way.
It was done with love and respect.
It was never done with hatred.
Is that the difference?The context?
I think thats where things get really complicated, especially with questions around appropriation.And blurred, yes.
I understand it, dont get me wrong.
My point in all of it is, that didnt exist.
Drag took the piss out of everything.
Now, if some kids do it, its not okay and they get beheaded it for it.
So its a very different day and age.
Im not used to it.
I understand it and respect it and appreciate it.
So what do you think about when college frat bros do a dumb, slutty cheerleader thing?
I feel like thats a common trope.Whereas that might be considered misogynistic.
Okay, it does make it wrong when its misogynistic.
What do you think about that?But drag has also been called misogynistic.
Yes it has.And I dont agree with that.
It can be.Anything can be.
Its the opposite of misogyny in my eyes.
Could there be misogynistic performers?
I hate that because it does dumb down trans people, cross-dressers, drag queens.
But its always happened, and its always going to happen.
Were not going to stop it.
Doesnt mean we have to tolerate it.
Just like well never stop idiocy and complacency.
Im not gay, so a lot of people might not listen to me.
Ive been told on Twitter that I dont get to say we because Im not part of the community.
Ive been involved in this community since I was 17.
Ive been around people who havent been able to and lost their lives.
The biggest gift for me is that youre able to live your life truthfully and honestly.
I dont care if Im ever recognized for what I do behind the scenes.
I dont give a shit.
What I care about is equality.
And as an ally, Im here to walk with them.
I truly believe my calling is to be here for a community thats always been there for me.
Youre not one of us.
Weve got a lot more work to do.
I want to go back to this question about gay and queer.
TheNo fats, no femmes, no Asiansis a perfect example.
It works against what were trying to do.
It breaks my heart.
Its the same way Ive been fighting for that as a feminist with women keeping each other down.
Women are so awful to each other.
Shes too fat, shes too skinny.
Its the same thing within the gay community, I think, of gay people keeping each other down.
I love that theres pride in segments, like bears and twinks, but it should also be inclusive.
When the AIDS epidemic hit, we were a team because nobody else was on our side.
People have to understand that were so much stronger together.
I know Ru thinks of drag and trans identity as very separate, but thathis opinion is evolving.
What are your views?I knew what drag queens were at 17 and 18 years old.
They were boys that dressed up in girls clothing and had fun.
They werent trying to be women.
They were just illusionist, or on the opposite end of the spectrum,genderfuckingand just having fun.
Then, one night, I was out with some of the House of Magnifique kids.
They took me to a bar called La Escuelita in New York City.
The majority of them were Brazilian.
I remember saying, Im so confused because thats a woman.
Now, mind you, trans was not a word in 1987, 88.
Basically, they identified, in those clubs, as drag queens and female illusionists.
They didnt identify as women, so to speak.
Its time we stop persecuting.
Why cant this person do whatever they want to do?
Youll hear the opposite end of the argument saying its taking away from what were trying to do.
And its all drag anyway.It is all drag.
As far as the show goes, we have had a lot of trans women on over the years.
The more we progress, Im proud of that.
I stand very loudly and proudly with the trans community.
Drag allowed trans women a space to figure their identity out before we had the words.One-hundred percent.
But back then, there was not a place to easily transition.
You couldnt get hormones.
You couldnt get that stuff if it wasnt black market.
So, yes, absolutely, trans women were always part of the community.
They just didnt have a title.
For us, the title was mother.
What was your relationship like to the other people in the house?
I know you said that you didnt drink.Never, no.
Ive gotten drunk maybe six, seven times in my life.
The last time I was 21.
When I say I have zero boundaries, I say zero boundaries.
I will have sex with anybody.
I was like, I was really good.
I think theres a safety net with me, knowing Id never judge.
What interested me was making money and becoming a star, whatever that meant, when I was young.
What was your audition for Seduction like?It was ballsy.
Its an interracial girl group.
And I go, What?
Do they need a white girl?
Shes like, They have one.
I said, Oh, its not me.
She didnt want to give me the number.
Shed just got in, to her defense.
She didnt want to mess it up for her.
I was like, Idalis, weve always talked about this.
This is our dream.
So I convinced her.
She gave me the number, I called up.
You need a white girl for this girl group.
They were like, What?
Well, we have a white girl.
I go, But you dont have me.
Can I come sing for you?
I think they were so taken aback at this ballsy bitch, so they were like, Okay.
I dolled myself up.
I looked real cute.
David Cole was still alive.
He said, What are you going to sing?
I said, Teena Marie, Deja Vu.
Teena Marie was my idol vocally.
I sang it, and they were like, Oh my god.
What else are you going to sing?
And I was like, Else?
Im going to sing Jennifer Holliday, I Am Love.
Davids face was like,Okay skinny white girl.
And I said, I just sang enough.
He was like, You didnt stop because it got high there?
And I said, No, I can sing it.
He was like, All right, then sing it.
I said, If I sing it, can I be in the group?
And he said, Yeah.
I sang it, and he goes, All right.
Youre going to Virginia Beach.
When did you meet RuPaul?1987, 88.
We cant really pin it down.
I was voguing with my kids.
I was the first biological female to vogue in the ballroom scene and compete.
Can we mark that in the history books?Yeah, mark it in the history books.
After that, a lot of biological women started competing.
Theres always been a femme-queen category, and thats who I would vogue against.
And then some of the houses started picking girls to start voguing, which is great.
Susanne Bartsch found me with the queens that I vogued with at the club.
She came over and said, Darling, I want you to vogue at my parties.
We were always Craigslist missing persons.
Vogues passing in the night.Thats it.
I walk over and I go, I dont know if you remember me.
Hes like, You are a fucking superstar, of course I know who you are.
Why were you not on the first season ofDrag Race?
When you sign a contract, as you probably know, Im liable if I break the contract.
[Drag Races production company] World of Wonder called me.
And I said, Ill do anything that Ru does.
You know that, anything.
I go to my boss the next day this was a new boss and he says no immediately.
I said, Why not?
And he said, Honestly, I dont think its the right look for our radio station.
And I went, Wheres the camera?
Am I being Punkd?
What are you, homophobic?
And hes like, No, I just dont think its our listenership.
And I went, Oh my god, you dont like gay people.
I was so offended that I had to call Ru and tell him.
And there was disdain.
He was upset, and I was upset.
He wasnt mad at me.
Later, I started this event to raise money for breast-cancer awareness called Pretty in the City.
It was a really fun night for girls and gays.
It made a shit ton of money.
My boss then said, Do you think RuPaul would perform at the next one?
And I went, Absolutely not.
So then season two came and I emailed Ru and I was like, Ill do whatever it takes.
I want to do this.
He was like, Baby, the formula works.
We cant change it.
I was devastated, but I understood.
And I was like, Okay.
Im going to do whatever I can do to get on the show.
I asked my boss.
I called Leah Remini, this is no joke, lamenting to her.
She goes, Give me the number of the president of CBS Radio.
And I said, No, mom, youre not calling CBS Radio for me.
She was onKing of Queensat the time, which is CBS.
She goes, Michelle, you are a star.
I said, Leah, Im in market 47.
They have no idea who I am.
She goes, If you dont do it, Im going to fucking call Les Moonves.
They do not drop TV shows in peoples laps.
I dont care if its on Logo.
it’s crucial that you do this.
And I was like, Okay.
A week later, the boss was fired.
Do you have a favorite season?Its season three.
Season four changed the game.
Season three is when it started to turn.
I love every season.So did I, but youre asking me to pick a favorite.
I cannot pick a favorite queen.
I have two daughters.
Thats like saying, pick a favorite daughter.
Theyre all my favorite.
Do you want to pick two of your favorite queens then?I cant.
RuPauls my favorite queen.
Honestly, its like the gay Sophies choice.
But Sophie still made a choice.I know, but Sophies a bitch.
I still love them.
Ive heard through the grapevine that they dont love me.
I know Alexis Mateo isnt my biggest fan.
I still love her and think shes amazing.
What about a favorite lip sync?There are so many brilliant ones.
Its hard to do just one.
Roxxxy Andrews, Whip My Hair with the wig reveal was definitely one of my favorites.
Latrice, Natural Woman.
Manila and Delta, MacArthur Park.
Dida Ritz, Natalie Cole.
Jinkx with that Malambo.
Do you think youre too tough?I am tough, but Im tough for a reason.
Im not Paula Abdul, and I love Paula Abdul.
I dont even know if theres one of those on our panel.
I think everybodys really honest.
Me pushing them to be the best they can be is not going to benefit me.
I dont get a cut of their money when they leave the show.
I want them to get the most money.
What if theyre actors?
And shes to this day one of my favorites.
And if youre giving me camp, then I want it to be campy.
But if youre just going to be sloppy, then its sloppy.
So it is important to you that theycando glamour.Correct.
They dont have to do it.
Its not that I want to change you.
RuPaul can do everything and has done everything.
I want to see other sides to your personality.
I know that youre going to show me what you do best most of the time.
But what else can you do?
Lets use Christina Aguilera for example.
I was so sick of seeing the white hair with the red lip.
Its about switching it up.
What happened with Adore Delano onAll Stars 2that led her toquit the show?
And I love Raven-Symone, and shes in the community.
Do you want to do a talk show with RuPaul?Thats the ultimate goal the daily talk show.
Do you think that there will be a winners season?No, I dont.
Ive seen that before, and the idea is titillating.
There are hard-core egos at play here.
But you never know.
Itd be fun.It would be exhausting, but it would be great television.
I also like the idea of villains versus congeniality.
Body queens versus big girls.
Pageant queens versus camp queens.
Of course, a U.K. season.
How do you think the show is changing drag culture?Listen, it has changed drag culture.
And theres a lot of bitter, older people who think its ruining drag.
Let me just say that I do get both sides.
Theyll just say its shitty, sloppy drag when thats not true.
What that is is true local drag.
And maybe they dont even want to be onDrag Race.
Maybe theyre happy just the way they are.
With that said, I think whatDrag Raceis doing for drag culture is a positive thing.
Mainstreaming is happening, but well never be mainstream.
We are a queer-centered show.
At its core, well always super serve the queer community.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
