Save this article to read it later.
Find this story in your accountsSaved for Latersection.
Spoilers ahead for the Arkangel episode ofBlack Mirror.
Jodie Foster didnt choose which sci-fi horror story shed direct for the fourth season ofBlack Mirror.
In Arkangel, a single mother turns to technology to keep her child safe.
The episode follows their relationship from childhood to adolescence.
Foster and DeWitt spoke to Vulture in October in Los Angeles, weeks aftersexual-assault allegations against Harvey Weinstein broke.
Related Stories
Arkangel takes helicopter-parenting to fascinating heights.
What attracted you both to the episode?
I wanted to do aBlack Mirror.
Jodie Foster:They handed this one to me, so I didnt get to choose.
It really was such an enormously foundational thing for me.
She worked with me in my career, so thats even more interesting.
And its the most beautiful relationship of my life and the hardest.
The one that required the most struggle and the most work as the years went on.
So I had a lot to say about this.
And also being a mom yourself?Foster: Yeah, but I have boys and mine are older.
And even I really related to the whole thing.
You think about every aspect of that as a parent and also as a child.
Every time you tell your child to do something, you are reminded of your relationship with your parents.
Its a circular thing.
I remember the time my son had to have his tonsils out and tubes put into his ears.
And as hes going down, the guy is putting the thing on his nose.
Hes 4 years old.
He keeps saying to him, Were going to count backwards.
Were gonna meet an astronaut; here comes the astronaut!
And my son is like, Yay, yay, yay!
And I absolutely start sobbing and he goes under.
It was the hardest thing in the world.
It was like putting a dog down or something.
No, a child.
And then the child is looking at you, saying, Are you killing me?
I cant explain to him that its gonna be okay.
Those little, tiny, subtle moments.
We can track kids on their phones.
This mom goes a lot further.DeWitt: The question is, do you want it?
Do you need it?
Certainly, our experiences are what make us who we are.
But then again, I had a moment last night.
And I was like, Absolutely not.
She started throwing down hard about it.
And I was about to burst into tears.
It is really primal, sometimes.
For all intents and purposes, you are always inside the body of your child.
I had a mom who lived through me in a lot of ways.
It was a very complicated relationship.
I was an actor, and I was doing all the things she could never do.
DeWitt: And perhaps having some ownership of it with you.
Foster: The mother doesnt even realize the impact of that, really.
All of the little things are mind-blowing, like shielding her from the barking dog.
from this sort of not-human experience.
My child will never live what I had to live.
I think that its handled very deftly because the mother is reading it wrong.
Foster: Shes seeing her as a victim.
DeWitt: Shes seeing her daughter as victimized, but shes not.
Shes seeking out early experience.
Natural curiosity about sexuality, and the mothers fears and stuff are blinding her to the situation.
And we used to have not-integrated bathrooms.
I mean, come on!
Whats up with this new way?
DeWitt: Theres also something about the dad saying it, too.
And I remember thinking,You didnt get up in the middle of the night!
So its all degrees.
Foster:For me, this is its just rich.
I love that aboutThe Twilight Zone.
Hopefully, they wont be like, I dont want to watch the girl episode.
DeWitt: You might have some 21-year-olds who are like, I dont want to watch.
Although I do like our episode for that reason.
By the time you understand what something is, its too late.
Theyre gonna think theyre awesome!
Im wondering how youre both feeling as women in the business, after the last few weeks weve had.
How are you feeling about everything thats come out?
How are you doing around this?Foster:It is an empowering moment.
Awareness, social justice thats what we hope for.
To be better and not worse, but with that transition toward the light.
Theres a lot of darkness out there.
DeWitt: For people who were personally involved, it really feels like its theirs to speak on.
But as a woman and talking to my friends and girlfriends, its really hard right now.
Its a painful time that I hope becomes a really empowering time.
I dont know that its felt super empowering.
I think the feeling around it has been grief.
Foster: Women have had amazing conversations, even with men around the table.
There isnt a woman I know who cant say me too, and some guys are surprised by that.
Its whenever someone with power is using it to hurt other people.
Foster: And that can be a Supreme Court justice.
It can be a driver.
It can be somebody who works for you, that you pay!
Im saying this because Iwasharassed by somebody who worked for me that I paid!
Whats wrong with me?
Why was I paying him?Until the day where I was like, This is crazy.
So, its not our industry.
Its not just our industry.
DeWitt: If youre a woman of a certain age, youre having so many this is crazy moments.
The fact that you didnt know it was crazy at the time also feels crazy.
Thats been one of the most enlightening parts of this.
Foster: This is a new time.
We have things like human resources, which we didnt have.
I madeThe Accusedhow many years ago?
That was an important conversation for people to hear.
Is that the question that youll be asking for the rest of your life?
Did I deserve it because I had a third glass of wine?
Or because I was wearing those shoes?
Because I didnt bring a girlfriend with me?
Those are the conversations that women have in their mind.
Foster: Were women, so we get to play women all the time.
We get to think about womens stories and what propels us.
And what are the forces behind the psychology of who we are?
So much of that is foundational for who we are, so its an interesting conversation.
Shes the one who pays for it not the person committing the wrong act.
This seems like a new concept to some people.Foster: Welcome to womens studies.
This is what weve been studying.
And its interesting to see the world wake up to it.
Were interesting, complicated people, and we have become that way because of the forces of our past.
And Ill be walking down the street somewhere and I remember my mom.
I remember my mom saying something like, Never be a stool pigeon!
I hear that voice!
I hear that voice.
Dont ever be a stool pigeon!
Has she gained weight?
Whats her hair like?Its the little things.
He doesnt want to see me without makeup, and Im like, Dad!
Foster: Honestly, thats why we make movies.
I get to express myself.
I get to work things out.
I get to say, Why did that happen, and why did that guy do this?
Its why I say in my movies that I never have any villains.
