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Look at the beauty, she marvels.
Different shapes, different sizes.
How does the supermarket make eggs all the same and boring?
She laughs, as she often does.
Do they make the chickens assholes uniform?
And just this year, Rossellini returned after a 22-year absence as one of the faces of Lancome.
When I look at my life now, she says, Im glad to know that Im in control.
It wasnt always this way.
They dont travel on the trains; they remain at their own stations.
Theyve lost their reproductive cycles.
This evolution is interesting, isnt it?
Evolution is a subject you often touch on in your shows,Link Link Circusincluded.
The research abouthow many Americans dont believe in evolutionis very surprising.
In Europe, everyone takes it as fact.
In America, you have the fundamentalists, in Europe we dont.
Its amazing to me that people can dispute these things.
Medicine is based on evolution.
We change the flu vaccine every year because bugs evolve!
So I dont know.
Im sure I wont get invited to perform by any churches that teach creationism.
But what we did have is what was called apiccolo gruppo: a small group.
A consciousness-raising group I think its called in America.
It was unbelievably powerful.
It was a group of maybe five or six women and it was a feminist practice.
For example, back then people never talked about what the vagina looked like.
There were no images of vaginas.
You couldnt just find vaginas on the internet like you might now.
Do you remember what she said?I thought it was a stork that brought children.
I couldnt believe the rumor that a man has to penetrate a woman.
I thought,My mom didnt do that.
But she admitted to it, and she drew it for me.
Thats fantastic.This was a mama trying to explain this subject to her child.
Youre trivializing it because thats what journalists do.
Thats not what I do, but Im sorry if I came off that way.Okay, I know.
I am sensitive to this because people always say, I cannot imagine Ingrid Bergman changing diapers.
I cannot imagine Ingrid Bergman washing the dishes.
This was my mother!
I didnt mean to be glib.Its okay.
But my point is that thepiccolo gruppowas a safe place to ask about these things.
Because you wonder,Am I normal?
I dont find that as safe.
I want to tell you another interesting thing.
The results were amazingly accurate.
People correctly assumed that I was married and had children.
Ive always had white sofas!
Maybe people just think I look European, but we can read so much from faces.
She doesnt really like it.
How could people read this in her face?
Animals, like people, emanate a lot of communication.
And sometimes Ill read studies about the quack of an animal: Doesquackmean something different fromqueek?
But I think if the animal is like us,quackandqueekcould mean so many things.
But humans have civilized ourselves.
Were not wild animals.
Let me explain:Mammaswas based on studies done by feminist biologists, and one of them isMarlene Zuk.
I asked her to be my consultant on the series.
And also uses it as a way of understanding motherhood.Thats right.
So Marlene would ask people, How does the maternal instinct demonstrate itself?
She didnt find it.
The maternal instinct as characterized as females ready to sacrifice themselves for their babies is incorrect.
I think this is a useful thing for people to know, isnt it?
It was vulgar, it was normal, and it was done for different reasons.
Maybe nature is one of those reasons but thats not an excuse.
We just lived with it.
This is changing, I think.
Men have to see they cant behave in these ways.
What if people start to say, No, you have to say the persons name?
I dont know what happened to him.
He might be married.
He might have children.
I am a superstar in Italy, if I said who did this, I would destroy him.
This man hurt me in the context of a culture that we are all trying to change.
So date rape is sadly something that happens to a lot of women.
But its a complicated thing, and I dont want to discuss it further.
Rape is a way of being hurt that everyone can recognize.
There are other ways.
It could be your boss saying, I like your skirt on you.
Its a compliment, but it makes you feel diminished.
Its like when people say to me, You look so good for your age.
My mother committed adultery.
She did wrong, but she was not allowed to come back to this country for eight years.
She lost her income.
She lost her reputation.
She was considered evil.
She was responsible for what she did adultery hurts people but the punishment didnt fit the crime.
These issues are too hot.
Its amazing how high the stakes of every political conversation feel right now, isnt it?
She said, Oh, we love him because he is likeourcorrupt politicians.
They recognize him.They understand the nepotism.
Have you met Trump?Once.
It was in New York years ago.
I was invited to a dinner at Tavern on the Green, and I was like, What?
You sit me next to Trump?
I said, No, no.
Hes not like them.
Even in New York he was considered not on the same level as those guys.
He built buildings that werent very good.
Theyre not the top of luxury.
I thought he was going to be obnoxious, but he was very courteous.
It was a surprise.
I follow only what Im interested in, and I want to share my wonderment and my amusement.
It is a good idea, isnt it?
What is it?Curiosity is my engine, but laughter is my fuel.
Thats pretty good, no?
You think Im beautiful?
Youll pay me for this?
Oh, thank you very much.
How long will it last?
Then it becomes, Oh, now youre old, get out of here.
You are at the mercy of others.
I recently read about a documentary made by the French actress Delphine Seyrig calledBe Pretty and Shut Up.
Of course, I never knew how to get there.
That was also true for me.
But that answer is about beauty as it relates to work.
Do you think theres any unintentional distortion that happens?[Laughs.]
I never looked at myself and thought,I am so beautiful.
I dont think that any model or actress looks at themselves and says how beautiful they are.
Thats what I mean about beauty as an instrument.
But the question of why would my face sell?
This was interesting to me.
You mean trying to figure out the psychology behind your modeling success?Yes.
Im interested in the kind of research advertisers do to make a run at understand that mystery.
I was on thecover ofVogue23 times.
Once, I had four covers in a row.
I asked them why they did that and they said, Because you sell copies of the magazine.
Of course, they dont have a cluewhyI sold copies.
Lancome only had a little better idea.
Their marketing research showed that I was not intimidating to women.
There is a beauty that seems to attract more women than men and that is what I had.
And you know, when I began modeling, the only responsibility was to be beautiful and anonymous.
You were the element for people to complete their fantasy of an ideal woman.
I dont understand it.
Were destined to be forgotten.
So when they called me, I was very surprised.
But now Im older and the company is asking about me again?
What happened to the womens dream?
I want to be inclusive.
Im getting older and I dont count anymore.
I cant accept that.
This made sense to me.
Now I saw that it was.
And, also, this career, the one I have now, its mine.
When youre young, you have to just your parents, just the professor, just the economy.
When youre old, you have the courage to say what you want.Do you know what?
I have to say no.
It was as simple as that.You have to be in your 60s to be able to answer like this.
Before I would have said, Oh, I broke a leg.
Because Trump does it so much.Butcoloraturais not really a lie.
Its the imagination spilling over.
You know, Isabel Allende is one of my favorite writers.
I know you were a journalist very early in your career.
Did that work inform what you did after?I wasnt really ajournalistjournalist.
Id come to America and I didnt know English very well.
So I took some courses to learn and eventually was hired by an Italian journalist.
I worked for him for three years.
I covered all the Muhammad Ali fights.
It was the best job you could do.
I learned problem-solving, research.
I would also do skits with a comedian named Renzo Arbore, who was then offered his own show.
So I went to work with him, doing little funny stories from America.
One of them was a very light interview with Martin Scorsese.
Thats how I met Marty.
But somehow I didnt seeThe Last Waltzbefore I had to interview Marty.
And he said, Oh, you want to see it tonight?
You have to see that film of John Ford.
Ill do a screening for you.
Thats how we started.
I think he liked me.
Marty was so fascinating talking about film.
I liked it very much.
Martin Scorsese andDavid Lynchare so different as directors.
Do you see commonalities between them that other people might not?Only that they have original brains.
Originality amuses me, and originality is familiar to me because of my father.
It makes me feel immediately like,Oh yeah, Ill help you.
David and Marty have a calling.
They have to do what they do.
Youre not that old![Laughs.
]No, I know.
But for a long time I saw myself as a person who makes herself available for someone elses art.
Many times, an artist may not know exactly what they want until they see it.
So you help them find it.
You play it more dramatic, more comical, as if you dont realize something horrible is happening.
Its like water, water, water.
Fire!Is that what you say?
I think people say hot or cold, but I know what you mean.Hot or cold, yes!
I always saw myself as that person I would make myself available for the art of others.
Was it satisfying to be a conduit for other artists?Thats part of being an actor.
In Italian, an actor is also the word for an interpreter.
Also, maybe because I come from Europe, I like when the directors are auteurs.
It might be less enjoyable if I were doing big commercial films where the vision is less personal.
But those are not the movies Ive usually done.
Are you generally happy with the acting roles youve gotten to play?
That role is hard to play its a projection of who other characters see.
What do I do with that?
How do you act mysterious?
But Im doing lots of very good work now that I love.
He said, Me neither.
I said, You dont understand it?
How do you direct it?
And he said, If I understand it, why would I do it?
I do the things I dont understand.
I immediately understood what he meant.Tryingto understand is to me the most wonderful part of being an actress.
Wait you didnt tell me what your true calling is.To me the calling is about animals.
Theyre questions without easy answers.Yes, I know that I will die without knowing the answers to my questions.
But I study not just to know answers but also out of curiosity and laughter.
Speaking of which, the way you deliver the lineEjaculate on my wound!
its so funny.[Laughs.]
The bedbug, yes.
Can you imagine this evolution?
Is there a lesson there?You dont need a vagina bedbugs, not people.
This interview has been edited and condensed from two conversations.
Annotations by Matt Stieb.
