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And because we were inventing technology as we were doing it, it was a huge challenge.

Like, we were writing muscle systems.
Because he was so skinny, you saw all of the muscles moving under his skin.
That was something that had never been done before.
Yeah, its called Subsurface [Scattering] and we actually got an Oscar for that technology.
Thats sort of the idea of Subsurface.
It spreads the light as it goes through the surface so you get that skin-like feel.
And we still use Subsurface to this day.
What was the process of creating that technology like?
So its lots of different areas of technology within Weta that put all that together.
How had people done it previously?
Everyone has something slightly different, but it all is based on skinning.
So its driven by a point inside of the skin.
The difference with this system is, the muscles underneath were actually moving and pushing the skin around.
How did you develop that?
So as parts were finished, we were able to slowly put them all back together and build this.
Just little hints of him in the background.
Right, and often in dark prefs.
Yeah, so you didnt really need to have that much detail in him for that one.
But we had to start it then.
The previous films we shot him on a mo-cap [motion capture] stage.
Its interesting to know that he was on set just for the third film.
I mean, Andys just such an interactive character.
Like when hes on set, hes jumping off walls, hes doing such crazy stuff.
And on [2017sWar for the Planet of the Apes], we lost a couple, right?
A couple setups, the actors did something that sort of broke it.
Andy went through, like, 12 sets of mo-cap rigs onReturn of the Kingalone.
He is so active, and so hyper, hes like a kid bouncing off the walls.
I think thats what has made performance capture such an interesting way of doing films now.
Thats how far all of this, the performance capture, has come.
Its crazy for us just how far its come.
And imperfections, too.
Its the same in CG.
Like Gollum has scars and cuts and weird little
And bruises, right?
Like, Andy had a little eye twitch.
And thats what we were aiming for withLord of the Rings, too.
I think another one is his eyes.
And I was just doing numbers and forAlita, the eyes are 9 million polygons.
So thats how much the technology changes, right?
Like Gollum, we were insane for putting 5,000 polygons in, and now were at 9 million.
It seems like every movie Ive ever done has had that happen [laughs].